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|Go to - FDNC NEWS FORUMS > VIC > ‘Don’t call them gangs’ | Police.|
|Posted by: Bear Jan 2 2018, 04:31 PM|
| African gang crime 'out of control' in Melbourne: Greg Hunt.
Cars were damaged when an Airbnb property was trashed in Werribee last month.
By Brad Ryan
Updated about 10 hours ago
The comments from Mr Hunt and Mr Turnbull follow several recent headline-grabbing crimes blamed on groups of young African men, including the trashing of an Airbnb property in Werribee and the repeated destruction of a community centre in Tarneit.
In both cases, walls were scrawled with the letters "MTS", which are understood to stand for a western suburbs-based group, "Menace to Society".
A spate of jewellery store robberies in 2016 and 2017, many carried out by groups of men described as being of African appearance, also prompted debate about gang crime.
South Sudanese Australian Nelly Yoa, who mentors troubled young members of the community in Melbourne, said the Prime Minister's criticism of the Victorian Government was valid.
"The State Government has watched this unfold over the past two years," said Mr Yoa, who came to Australia in 2003 as a refugee.
"Nothing has been done."
He said more must be done to address violence in African communities.
"As a Melburnian, I do believe enough is enough. Action needs to be taken instead of just talking about it all the time."
Police dispute 'gang' problem
Migrants from Sudan are overrepresented in crime data for offences such as serious assault and aggravated burglary — but they are responsible for far fewer incidents overall than Australian-born offenders.
The Victorian Crime Statistics Agency's data for the year to June 2017 shows Sudanese-born offenders were allegedly involved in 98 aggravated burglaries in the state, compared to 540 Australian-born offenders.
For the same period, 45 serious assaults were allegedly committed by Sudanese-born offenders, compared to 1,462 Australian-born offenders.
People born in Sudan make up about 0.1 per cent of Victoria's population, Census data shows.
Last week, Victoria Police Deputy Commissioner Andrew Crisp said Melbourne did not have a gang problem, and urged the media not to label groups of young thugs as "gangs".
"I don't accept for one minute that we do have gangs," Deputy Commissioner Crisp said at the time.
"I urge you [the media] not to play up to the ego of these young people by calling them a gang, because they're not a gang."
When asked about the Government's comments on Monday, Deputy Commissioner Crisp maintained Victoria Police was "well and truly on top of" youth crime.
"The data shows … we're locking up more and more people and, at the same time, we're focused on some of the underlying social issues," Deputy Commissioner Crisp said.
He said there had been a shift in behaviour in the western suburbs around Tarneit following police operations targeting youth crime.
"I'm very confident where we're going and how we're tackling youth crime in this state."
Victorian Government frontbencher Philip Dalidakis said the Government would take its instructions and advice from Victoria Police, not the Prime Minister.
"We certainly will not be taking suggestions or advice from a bloke who can't even put on a life vest when he's on a boat in Sydney Harbour," Mr Dalidakis said.
"So if Malcolm Turnbull wants to play games instead of working in a collaborative effort, then he can do so and talk to himself."
Data released in December by the state's Crime Statistics Agency shows Victoria's overall crime rate dropped by 6.2 per cent in the year to September 30, largely because of falls in theft from cars and aggravated burglaries.
But sexual assaults and robberies continued to rise.
"I don't accept for one minute that we do have gangs," Deputy Commissioner Crisp said at the time.
How politically correct, nothing to see here let us move on....we don't want to be accused of being that terrible 'R' word do we Do the members here feel that it would be in our best interests to say nothing, and just learn to live with the new society we have created? Some call it diversity!
Menace To Society
Police and the public have a dangerous new gang to worry about – Menace To Society.
Link to news video - 9:04
I wouldn't want to live in any of these suburbs...
|Posted by: Phillip J. Jan 2 2018, 05:18 PM|
| When you boil it all down, the blame HAS to be laid squarely at the governments, past and present, because they are ones that ultimately allowed them in, in the first instance! They couldn't be here without the permission and approval from the government. The buck actually does stop with them!
|Posted by: Bill Jan 2 2018, 05:31 PM|
| African gangs in Melbourne are a problem, police admit, as Victorian Government defends strategy
Same story as above but updated with Victorian Crime Statistics. Scroll down..
Is there an election looming in Victoria ?
|Posted by: lee Jan 2 2018, 05:40 PM|
|Not gangs. Just mildly troubled teenagers and adults. Just high kinks.|
|Posted by: Bill Jan 2 2018, 05:44 PM|
The Vic. Police would do well to work with their religious mentors to get them off the streets and involved in the community.
|Posted by: Bear Jan 2 2018, 05:46 PM|
| Kevin Andrews warned us ALL about 9 years ago Phillip. We have been told that it will not happen here by the social justice warriors, those on the right are racists - will the same social justice warriors help 'fix' the situation we now find ourselves in? --- not likely, that type always start the fight then run off and hide.
“Some groups don’t seem to be settling and adjusting into the Australian way of life as quickly as we would hope,”
THE truth about Sudanese refugees is now so obvious that even the ABC admitted to the danger this week.
"Growing youth crime rates, with carjackings and home invasions doubling in the last year, … have revealed a growing trend of out-of-control South Sudanese youth,” its 7.30 program conceded.
So where are the sorries to Kevin Andrews, who warned nine years ago this would happen?
Where are the apologies from the journalists, Labor politicians and senior police who slimed him as a racist?
It was in 2007 that Andrews, immigration minister in the Howard government, said he was cutting back on refugees from Sudan and Somalia.
“Some groups don’t seem to be settling and adjusting into the Australian way of life as quickly as we would hope,” he said.
Must have been public pressure Bill - playing the public for fools is a mistake.
African gangs in Melbourne are a problem, police admit, as Victorian Government defends strategy
|Posted by: charka Jan 2 2018, 06:05 PM|
|9mm double tap Victoria voted the incompetents in They own all of it They are accountable https://postimg.org/image/5wqrnia9v/ i hope they are dragged out of Parliament they are still importing them why? https://www.facebook.com/YourPageIsFunny/videos/10155473271593386/ this says it all|
|Posted by: Bear Jan 2 2018, 06:23 PM|
| Salty buckshot would sort em Charks.
Deport those we can!
Lib MP Jason Wood has the correct approach.
|Posted by: charka Jan 2 2018, 09:12 PM|
|i feel critical mass will be reached soon|
|Posted by: Bill Jan 2 2018, 09:46 PM|
| Funny - Toowoomba has the largest population of Sudanese migrants outside of Melbourne, and we don't have that problem.
I wonder why that is ?
Could it be that the young Sudanese in Toowoomba are involved in the community, attend school and university, are involved in the many spiorting teams in the city, attend church on a regular basis, and have jobs and a future.
Maybe, or maybe not.
|Posted by: lee Jan 3 2018, 11:05 AM|
Could be Bill.
It would seem that is not the case in Melbourne. Why is that?
You would think chances for youth in Toowoomba would be smaller than in Melbourne. You would think residents of Toowoomba would be more insular, conservative.
Edit: Or perhaps true Multiculturalism exists only outside the major cities?
|Posted by: Bear Jan 3 2018, 02:49 PM|
| "The Vic. Police would do well to work with their religious mentors to get them off the streets and involved in the community."
Interesting comment from a self confessed atheist, Bill. Do you honestly believe that religion would change their behaviour?
I feel sorry for those who are left cleaning up and repairing the damage caused after their wild rampage!
Bikers wouldn't get away with causing half this amount of grief - the powers to be have gone too soft on these ungrateful vandals.
"Funny - Toowoomba has the largest population of Sudanese migrants outside of Melbourne, and we don't have that problem."
A quick bit of research tells a different story Bill.
|Posted by: charka Jan 3 2018, 10:12 PM|
| seems right Bill however why import from one race They are involved in the community to steal maim and kill for entertainment Just a article True? who knows Melbourne is most liveable city for gang members and bully unionists
Grace Collier The Australian January 6, 2018
Melbourne has no Gold Coast-style beaches, no Sydney-style harbour and no opera house; it only has everything else. Presumably this is why Melbourne has been named the world’s most liveable city for seven years in a row.
Unfortunately, it also has African crime gangs — you know the ones, the ones that for so long, apparently, didn’t exist.
In this town, many people regard Victoria Police as a pathetic disgrace. Our state politicians are no better. Victorians are caught between the organised criminals and the disorganised wimps. Crime is a useful weapon in the war between the two sides, and in the middle lies the innocent citizen, often dressed in all black.
People who take their shoes off at the cricket or say something stupid and racist to someone on public transport will be arrested quick smart. Then the police are likely to leak the story to the media so the perpetrator can be publicly humiliated as well.
The police media team loves to tweet and brag about the arrests of ordinary people committing petty crimes.
Meanwhile real criminals, such as violent gang members and union-affiliated “community activists” (people who sit in the middle of the road blocking the driveway of a business) don’t seem to get arrested at all. And if they do, the judges don’t impose sentences on them that are in line with community expectations.
Too soon they are back on the street, making nuisances of themselves, disrupting people’s lives and commerce.
The existence of the African gangs has been denied for years while the evidence grew and grew. The definition of a gang has been debated and, bizarrely, this debate is ongoing even now. For the typical nanny state dunderhead, it as though there is a formal registered list of gangs somewhere, in some government department, and the African crime gang is not on it.
The African gang members haven’t completed their certificate three in accredited crime gang training, they don’t have their gang licences, they haven’t paid their gang registration fee, don’t hold their gang blue cards, their gang photo ID, therefore it cannot be comprehended that they are a gang carrying out gang activity.
If it weren’t so serious, you’d die laughing. Still, better to die laughing than be cut in half by a machete in the middle of the night, I suppose.
Road blockades by “concerned community members” receive police sanction, no matter how much economic damage they cause. There was one just before Christmas that went on for two weeks. A casual worker on the waterfront couldn’t achieve the legally required security clearance and was refused any further shifts. Soon after a car was parked across the driveway of the business concerned. No one could get in or out, produce sat there, business was suspended.
Police simply took a comfortable seat close by and observed the blockade, which consisted of a half-dozen men sitting on plastic chairs, staring at their phones and chatting.
As long as the people conducting blockades are not violent and don’t say anything racist, the police sit by and watch. Instead of clearing the road so there is safe passage for business, the police allow people to illegally block the road indefinitely, until the company involved pays the required bribe to the designated person, while the police look the other way.
This is what happened in the blockade before Christmas. To end the picket, the company involved is paying an undisclosed sum to the man so he can sit at home until his discrimination claim is decided in court. This will take at least three years.
Perhaps the African gang members should subcontract their services to the criminal elements of the union movement. Sitting in the middle of the road is pretty easy work.
There is absolutely no risk of getting arrested and, in the longer term, one could end up on the board of an industry superannuation fund or even become prime minister.
Every time the police fail the people, confidence in public order diminishes. Sure, we are still going out to restaurants, but many of us don’t feel safe in the shops, the beach, at public events and even in our own homes. No one is immune from the threat, however remote, of spontaneous violent assault. The elderly, children, heavily pregnant women; we’ve seen them run down in broad daylight and viciously beaten.
It is past time that someone says this: Victoria is failing its citizens.
Australians love their big government so much. We’ve been sold on the idea that someone else will pay loads of tax so we can take the benefits. Well, where is your big government now, Melbourne, when your driveway is blocked and you can’t run your business, or when you’re at home at night, lying nervously in bed?
To be thankful for small mercies, at least we don’t have the draconian and idiotic anti-drinking laws that exist in NSW — our organised crime bosses would never allow it.
|Posted by: Bill Jan 6 2018, 12:55 PM|
| A quick bit of research tells a different story Bill.
Three stories about Sudanese migration in tpday's Toowoomba Chronicle, from a migrant's point of view and the local LNP mayor. Bear.
Do your own research maaate.
|Posted by: Charles Jan 7 2018, 08:45 AM|
| This article views the problem from a different perspective and is worth reading.
African youth crime: 'How can you respect someone who doesn't respect you?'
In many ways, he looks like any other 17 year old: North Face puffer, Adidas tracksuit pants, headphones over his baseball cap.
But D, who is sipping Fanta through a straw at the Tarneit McDonald's, doesn't feel like any other teenager.
And he reckons police, passers-by, even the Prime Minister don't treat him like one. D is Sudanese.
"Africans aren't the only ones that commit crime," he says.
"But the news just focuses on the little crimes by Africans, rather than big crimes by anyone else.
"And it just makes it easier for people to judge a book by its cover."
The events of the past month have been framed as an escalation of a crisis engulfing Melbourne, but this has been a slow burn, rather than an explosion: another chapter in a decade-long story of young Sudanese men committing crime in intense bursts, and the angst that follows.
Usually, however, this angst has not drawn in a prime minister. Or unfolded during the build-up to a state election when perceptions of public safety could turn marginal seats.
African youth crime is not a new issue. But it is an issue that's escalated again over the past weeks.
D, an Australian citizen who arrived in the country in 2004, was involved in two of the recent incidents that sparked the furore; he was at the party at an Airbnb house in Werribee that saw the street trashed and heavily-armed police respond, and he has spent time at the Tarneit community centre described last week as being "hijacked by young thugs".
He says the behaviour was unacceptable, but that it was no different than what many teenagers, regardless of background, do across Melbourne on any given weekend. When it's D and his friends, it becomes political, he reckons.
It is often noted during outrage about youth crime gangs of a certain ethnicity that this panic has been seen before: fears about white kids, Middle-Eastern kids, Vietnamese kids, stretching back to the 1950s.
But none of those kids stood out like D does. None of them was tall and black.
Last month, he says he was stopped by police while walking along Derrimut Road, not far from the McDonald's.
He was told that because he was carrying a white towel, he had a similar description to a man wanted for burglary. He was going to the swimming pool, he told them, but was still arrested.
"We are just going to end up hating police. Why? Because we feel police hate us more," D says.
"There's good police, but there's a lot of bad ones, too.
"How can you respect someone who doesn't respect you?"
Respect - not a lack of job prospects, or problems with education, or an absence of strong leaders, or a weak judiciary - is what one former policeman with almost two decades of experience dealing with youth crime in marginalised communities believes is the biggest issue; on the side of the force, and the kids.
"There's just a real lack of appreciation for the seriousness of committing crime," the former cop said.
"There's a lack of respect not just for police, but for the law, and for what it means for their lives when you get a conviction."
But the former cop, speaking on condition of anonymity, said he also believed the force had been impatient in their dealings with some communities, losing their respect.
"When we are getting stuck into about the crime stats [getting worse], it just rains down like shit on everyone.
"We go out, hit hot spots…'monstering' the crime out of a community, they used to call it.
"We arrest 30 people for anti-social behaviour, get a big green tick...but that just leads to a deteriorating and deteriorating and deteriorating impression of police."
The use of the term "gangs" is emblematic of the tension within the police force, between those who want to smash into youth crime, and those who believe there is a smarter way.
South Sudanese community leaders such as Richard Deng believe that using the term is, at the very least, unhelpful and inaccurate.
But acting Chief Commissioner Shane Patton made a point of doing so this week, after police had been less definitive publicly as the issue built.
The stance was curious, given the force's submission to last year's federal inquiry into migrant settlement outcomes, which said youth offenders increasingly identified with the Apex gang after it gained national notoriety.
"Victoria Police therefore cautions against any tendency to inflate the extent of youth 'gang' activity in Victoria," the statement reads.
The same submission spells out that youth offending is decreasing, but a smaller group of offenders are committing more crimes, and that those aged 10-17 who were born overseas averaged more offences than those born in Australia.
Other data from the Crime Statistics Agency, when compared with population data, suggests Sudanese-born youth offenders are seven times more likely to be charged than Australian-born offenders, but that their impact on the overall crime rate is minute.
Government and police sources say this has led to a significant population of African-born males in youth detention - as many as a quarter of the population.
Some of these young men found themselves there because of a concerted effort by police to crackdown on the most serious offences - carjackings, home invasions, armed robberies - that had increased significantly since the start of 2016.
Attempts to stamp out these crimes - linked to what police termed youth network, rather than gang offending - were not as swift as they could have been, senior officers have conceded, especially given the trauma caused to victims..
"If you're the victim of one of those violent aggravated burglaries or carjackings or you know someone who has been a victim, I can think of nothing worse," Deputy Commissioner Andrew Crisp said last year.
This week's series of high-profile offences came several months after police felt the worst was behind them.
Late Friday - more than three weeks after the first incident occurred - Commander Russell Barrett was speaking about more "horrendous offences" in the west, including bashings, robberies, and violent home invasions.
The upcoming state election has simply added fuel to the blaze.
One senior officer is certain some of them will do as other members of youth street gangs have done in the decades before, and become serious organised crime figures.
"It's inevitable. There will be people who grow out of this but there are others who are just angry and just bad."
Sudanese men Sebit, 19, and Devarn, 18, fear another consequence.
They want it known that the bundling of young people from a continent of 54 countries into a synonym for trouble - African - is fuelling hatred.
Sebit has been in Australia since he was four, and says he was first called the N-word in primary school.
He feels he will never be recognised as Australian unless he becomes an athlete, a musician or a model.
Meanwhile, he fears being attacked. It has almost been forgotten that, 10 years ago, a Sudanese teenager who also had his troubles with police, Liep Gony, was beaten to death by a pair of men, one of whom had earlier yelled he was going to "take my anger out on some niggers".
"How are we supposed to assimilate if we keep being told how different we are?" Sebit asks.
There are some very valid points made here, one of which is the fact that the recent media attention coincides with an approaching election.
Another valid points is made when the article states: "It is often noted during outrage about youth crime gangs of a certain ethnicity that this panic has been seen before." I'm not sure about "panic". Perhaps concern might be more accurate. However, this is definitely the case in WA. Some time ago there was a very real concern about conflicting gangs of youths. One gang (called the 'Sword Boys' if I remember correctly) comprised Vietnamese youths while another was a group young indigenous Australians.
The key to the issue must be mutual respect. How that respect is gained is another matter.
|Posted by: charka Jan 7 2018, 04:16 PM|
|All i hear is talk nothing else ,Allow people to defend themselves Talk is bullshit what has i got us ssm?? People are getting sick of talk while the toll mounts|
|Posted by: Bear Jan 9 2018, 05:53 AM|
| Mother blames Centrelink for son's gang downfall.
The mother of an African gang-member says her son fell onto the wrong side of the law because her Centrelink payments were inadequate, and she wasn't able to keep him properly entertained.
Mother-of-six Asha Awya made the claims to A Current Affair.
"The Centrelink money is not enough, sometimes I cut some of their entertainment," the Brisbane woman said.
She said her son thought: "If mum always not giving me money, there's no pocket money, then maybe I have to find a way of stealing and get my own money."
Her eldest son has spent time in prison, but details as to why he was arrested can not be released due to legal reasons.
Ms Awya says her son was in a gang before his arrest, and would organise meet-ups with other members on social media.
She also said a lack of employment opportunities, and "too many laws" contributed to her son's problems with the law.
"They came from a very traumatised environment, and coming to Australia, trying to fit in with the religion and the friends around them at school, is very challenging," Ms Awya said.
"We have all these laws, so it's just very confusing, and I feel sorry for the kids because they don't know how to deal with this.
"They end up smoking, and end up with group of the confused kids."
Ms Awya also said African youth felt isolated in the community.
"Maybe they're thinking it's a fun way to deal with the problem, but they don't know they're ending up in big mess later," she said.
"They end up stealing people's stuff, breaking into their car, or taking people's credit card.
"Any opportunity that come across, then they just do it to get their money to buy more and more drugs. They don't concentrate at school. Their mind is somewhere else. "
Plenty of excuses here - blame Centrelink and "too many laws".
I bet they get more welfare now than they did in the past....
|Posted by: charka Jan 9 2018, 08:34 AM|
|Why were the unemployable brought here https://postimg.org/image/x0xgppo7n/ Insurgents comes to mind|
|Posted by: lee Jan 9 2018, 11:13 AM|
|Obviously never heard of "do without".|
|Posted by: Bear Jan 9 2018, 06:30 PM|
| For those interested here is a link to the full story - including an interview with Peter Dutton.
There has been fierce debate about how to tackle Melbourne’s escalating problem with gang violence.
Exclusive footage of a sickening attack shows how out of control some teens have become, while the mother of a gang member says she knows why the situation has got out of control.
Maybe it is just the way that the Vic government is running their state.
|Posted by: Michael.W Jan 9 2018, 08:57 PM|
|Who said the government was running the State. ???|
|Posted by: charka Jan 10 2018, 02:32 PM|
|Time for talk is finished I call them enemy very good about useing resources for ssm for a minority millions Or 11 million for lawyers because politicians can not do simple paperwork As i thought a do nothing talkfest while the victims still climb|
|Posted by: Bear Jan 18 2018, 11:58 AM|
| What statistics can and can't tell us about Melbourne's African crime issue.
Sudanese-born people over-represented in crime stats.
People born in Sudan make up just 0.1 per cent of Victoria's total population, or about 6,000 people.
Most of those live in Melbourne, mainly in the western and south-eastern suburbs.
Recent data from Victoria's Crime Statistics Agency shows that 0.1 per cent of the population made up 1.4 per cent of all alleged offenders in Victoria — that is, people that police have linked to crimes although they may not necessarily have been found guilty or been charged.
So there clearly is an over-representation, right?
Criminologist Rebecca Wickes believes that comparison is unfair.
"We have a very skewed age distribution within the Sudanese population," Dr Wickes said.
"Fifty per cent of the Sudanese population is under the age of 25, and that's compared with 33 per cent of the Australian general population. So you're not comparing like with like."
Why have they not included those born here?
Could it be that the numbers would look a hell of a lot worse??