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 'Bill Shorten lies'
Bill
 Posted: May 15 2018, 11:58 AM
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Hi Charles

In brief, a budget is about a plan and facts, an opposition response is about promises and fairy tales - no matter who is in power.

So....do we start with the 'specific' plan and facts of the Morrison Budget ?

Or do we start with the 'specific' promises and fairy tales of Curly's Response ?

I'll leave you to start us off Charles. http://fairdinkumnewschat.b1.jcink.com/uploads/fairdinkumnewschat/lbill.gif

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Bill
 Posted: May 15 2018, 12:13 PM
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QUOTE (lee @ May 14 2018, 02:43 PM)
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As an example News Ltd moved income offshore in 2012/2013 and the ATO was goin to the High Court to recover $892 Million in what it regarded as illegally avoided tax.
Enter the Abbott government and surprise, surprise, the case is dropped.

"The Australian Tax Office wanted to challenge the claim but was overruled by the Federal Court of Appeal in July last year, the Australian Financial Review reported on Monday."
"“The ATO seeks external legal counsel opinion on the prospects of success for an appeal before making a decision."
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/feb/17/rupert-murdoch-receives-882m-tax-rebate
Isn't it amazing how an independent umpire is brow beaten by government.

Hi lee
A panel of judges decided in favour of News Corporation on July 25, but the money did not immediately flow because the ATO was still able to appeal to the High Court.

The ATO's 28-day window to mount an appeal coincided with the federal election campaign, during which Mr Murdoch's newspapers ran heavily against the Labor Party and the then prime minister Kevin Rudd.


https://www.smh.com.au/business/tax-office-forced-to-pay-rupert-murdoch-880m-20140217-32weo.html

Nice try lee, but no cigar. The Abbott government allowed the case to lapse., as I pointed out in my post. http://fairdinkumnewschat.b1.jcink.com/uploads/fairdinkumnewschat/lbill.gif

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lee
 Posted: May 15 2018, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE
The ATO's 28-day window to mount an appeal coincided with the federal election campaign, during which Mr Murdoch's newspapers ran heavily against the Labor Party and the then prime minister Kevin Rudd.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/tax-office-forced-to-pay-rupert-murdoch-880m-20140217-32weo.html

Nice try lee, but no cigar. The Abbott government allowed the case to lapse., as I pointed out in my post. 


So the time lapsed during an election campaign when Rudd was PM; but it is Abbott's fault. Got it. http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/laugh.gif http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/laugh.gif http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/laugh.gif http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/laugh.gif

"The ATO decided not to appeal, as advice from its senior counsel was that it wouldn't succeed in a High Court challenge."

https://www.smh.com.au/business/how-news-corp-ended-up-being-the-nations-no1-tax-risk-20150511-ggz1hg.html

Abbott must have been senior council.

This post has been edited by lee: May 15 2018, 01:36 PM

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Charles
 Posted: May 15 2018, 03:45 PM
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QUOTE (Bill @ May 15 2018, 11:58 AM)
Hi Charles

In brief, a budget is about a plan and facts, an opposition response is about promises and fairy tales - no matter who is in power.


So....do we start with the 'specific' plan and facts of the Morrison Budget ?

Or do we start with the 'specific' promises and fairy tales of Curly's Response ?

I'll leave you to start us off Charles. http://fairdinkumnewschat.b1.jcink.com/uploads/fairdinkumnewschat/lbill.gif


I'll start with a couple of definitions.

plan/ noun
1.a detailed proposal for doing or achieving something.
2.an intention or decision about what one is going to do.


promise/noun
1.a declaration or assurance that one will do something or that a particular thing will happen.
verb
1.assure someone that one will definitely do something or that something will happen.
2.give good grounds for expecting (a particular occurrence).


Morrison's budget is a specific plan. Shorten's promise, while a declaration or assurance, is a promise - or more precisely, a politician's promise. He has simply taken Morrison's budget figures and promised to increase the benefits outlined.
If you believe Shorten's promise to be binding, you are more naive than I thought.

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scepo
 Posted: May 15 2018, 04:46 PM
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QUOTE
A panel of judges decided in favour of News Corporation on July 25, but the money did not immediately flow because the ATO was still able to appeal to the High Court.

The ATO's 28-day window to mount an appeal coincided with the federal election campaign, during which Mr Murdoch's newspapers ran heavily against the Labor Party and the then prime minister Kevin Rudd.


That is the funniest thing I have read all day. http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/laugh.gif http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/laugh.gif http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/laugh.gif

Clearly Abbott was not PM during the election campaign, and neither was the LNP in government. http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/rolleyes.gif http://fairdinkumnewschat.b1.jcink.com/uploads/fairdinkumnewschat/smiley_don_t_know.gif http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/laugh.gif http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/laugh.gif

Labor has never done a single thing that I can recall about stopping funds being moved to tax havens offshore. The first I can recall trying to gain international co-operation (which is essential) on this issue was Joe Hockey when he was treasurer. To every previous government it just went into the too hard basket.

And to be honest Bill, I cannot recall you regarding it an issue as well as an answer to government debt until after Abbott won the 2013 election. I cannot recall you ever mentioning it as something government should do during the Rudd/Gillard disastrous era.

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Michael.W
 Posted: May 15 2018, 07:33 PM
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QUOTE (scepo @ May 15 2018, 04:46 PM)
QUOTE
A panel of judges decided in favour of News Corporation on July 25, but the money did not immediately flow because the ATO was still able to appeal to the High Court.

The ATO's 28-day window to mount an appeal coincided with the federal election campaign, during which Mr Murdoch's newspapers ran heavily against the Labor Party and the then prime minister Kevin Rudd.


That is the funniest thing I have read all day. http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/laugh.gif http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/laugh.gif http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/laugh.gif

Clearly Abbott was not PM during the election campaign, and neither was the LNP in government. http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/rolleyes.gif http://fairdinkumnewschat.b1.jcink.com/uploads/fairdinkumnewschat/smiley_don_t_know.gif http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/laugh.gif http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/laugh.gif

Labor has never done a single thing that I can recall about stopping funds being moved to tax havens offshore. The first I can recall trying to gain international co-operation (which is essential) on this issue was Joe Hockey when he was treasurer. To every previous government it just went into the too hard basket.

And to be honest Bill, I cannot recall you regarding it an issue as well as an answer to government debt until after Abbott won the 2013 election. I cannot recall you ever mentioning it as something government should do during the Rudd/Gillard disastrous era.


Scepo, Rudd tried to make up for the off shore taxes with his super tax on the mining industry, Ohh shit that didn't work either the mines just closed the doors and told Rudd to bang it where it belongs.

Gillard's there will be "NO" supertax under the governmnet I lead or words to that effect.... eitherway both nearly sent the country broke, then we have Lair shorten. Instructmental on destroying 2 PM's but now he suppose to be Australia's shining example of a good leader. Sorry just choke on my words their.

If Shorten ever make PM, Australia will be sold up the creek without a paddle to hold. Please God help us !!!!


This post has been edited by Michael.W: May 16 2018, 09:33 AM
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Bill
 Posted: May 16 2018, 02:36 PM
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Hi scepo
Your post on the Shoutbox:
Thanks for making a post in Latest Political Stories Bill

That went well mate. http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/biggrin.gif So far we've only seen 'nitpicking' on peripheral issues.

Would you like to lead the discussion ? Charles is only offering 'definitions' of plans and promises.

Rumour http://fairdinkumnewschat.b1.jcink.com/uploads/fairdinkumnewschat/smiley_don_t_know.gif has it that Chris Bowen (Shadow Treasurer) has refused to release his costings because predictions out to ten years are unreliable. http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/blink.gif

Cheers scepo - and Good Luck. http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/biggrin.gif http://fairdinkumnewschat.b1.jcink.com/uploads/fairdinkumnewschat/lbill.gif

Does anyone have any idea why Kate left us ? http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/biggrin.gif http://fairdinkumnewschat.b1.jcink.com/uploads/fairdinkumnewschat/lbill.gif


This post has been edited by Bill: May 16 2018, 02:42 PM

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scepo
 Posted: May 16 2018, 05:44 PM
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QUOTE (Bill @ May 16 2018, 02:36 PM)
Hi scepo
Your post on the Shoutbox:
Thanks for making a post in Latest Political Stories Bill

That went well mate.  http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/biggrin.gif  So far we've only seen 'nitpicking' on peripheral issues.

Would you like to lead the discussion ? Charles is only offering 'definitions' of plans and promises.

Rumour  http://fairdinkumnewschat.b1.jcink.com/uploads/fairdinkumnewschat/smiley_don_t_know.gif has it that Chris Bowen (Shadow Treasurer) has refused to release his costings because predictions out to ten years are unreliable. http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/blink.gif

Cheers scepo - and Good Luck.  http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/biggrin.gif  http://fairdinkumnewschat.b1.jcink.com/uploads/fairdinkumnewschat/lbill.gif

Does anyone have any idea why Kate left us ?  http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/biggrin.gif  http://fairdinkumnewschat.b1.jcink.com/uploads/fairdinkumnewschat/lbill.gif



Come on Bill get it all off your chest, I know you want to. You are amongst friends here, there is nothing to fear.

Or if you prefer, either PM me or email me. I have no vendettas, malice or hard feelings.


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Charles
 Posted: May 16 2018, 06:42 PM
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Hi Bill
Thus far you have done little more than drag peripheral issues such as Cayman Island off-shore tax evasion (an issue that neither side of politics has tackled) into the discussion and challenged me and others to discuss Morrison's budget and Shorten's promises. I have indicated briefly that I approved of the budget and dismissed Shorten's promises (which are the basis of this thread) as being nothing but political promises which, as history has shown us, are more often than not often worthless.
Nowhere have I seen your response to Morrison's budget, just a challenge for others to start a discussion
.

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Bill
 Posted: May 16 2018, 07:22 PM
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National Press Club Address - Scott Morrison

https://iview.abc.net.au/programs/national-press-club-address/NC1811C016S00

National Press Club Address - Chris Bowen
https://iview.abc.net.au/programs/national-press-club-address/NC1811C017S00

If we are going to explore the differences between policies aka plans/promises, this would be a good plaqce to start.

Straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.

Enjoy. http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/biggrin.gif http://fairdinkumnewschat.b1.jcink.com/uploads/fairdinkumnewschat/lbill.gif

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